Automatic clock function for time zone changes

[troutseth]

Originally Posted by Utah Q User

dialing *228 does NOT update the time. Just traveled from MST to PST last week and tried this and it does not work. W/ the Q you have to go into time and date settings and change the time manually.

DOES anyone know if the Sprint Q updates time? I was wondering if it is a limitation of Verizon or the Q. It is not the WM5.

[JeffCarlin]

Anyone can see that there are different ways we all do business. I fall in the camp that doesn't want Outlook to change my appt based on my current Time Zone. It would seem that lots of us would pay for a small app that would interrupt Outlook changing appt times, but still allow us to change Time Zones on our Q's as we travel. That way, of course, the clock on the Q (and our wake up alarm) would be correct without calculations.

[troutseth]

Originally Posted by JeffCarlin

Anyone can see that there are different ways we all do business. I fall in the camp that doesn't want Outlook to change my appt based on my current Time Zone. It would seem that lots of us would pay for a small app that would interrupt Outlook changing appt times, but still allow us to change Time Zones on our Q's as we travel. That way, of course, the clock on the Q (and our wake up alarm) would be correct without calculations.

I did verify that you can turn the auto update on or off on the BlackJack.

Jeff, you are right . . in a perfect world the Q would update like I explained the way regular Outlook does . . but have the option to set 1) update clock only 2) update clock and outlook 3) do not update.

ahh we can dream

[PNut]

Sorry it took so long, but *228 does not reset the time to local.

I even took the extra step of shutting off the wireless and crashing the phone on purpose. When I booted the phone back up it reverted to midnight on January 1, 2003 until I restarted the phone, so that it could connect with the local towers. Go figure, it set everything back to EST, not CST where I am.

This has to mean that it is receiving some time information from the towers and correcting based on settings on the handheld.

[Pony99CA]

Originally Posted by JeffCarlin

Anyone can see that there are different ways we all do business. I fall in the camp that doesn't want Outlook to change my appt based on my current Time Zone.

First, Outlook does not "change" your appointment at all. The appointment is stored relative to GMT as far as I know. Outlook simply displays the appointment relative to the time zone you're in based on the offset from GMT.

The correct way to use Outlook when scheduling an appointment in another time zone is to switch to that time zone first, then enter the appointment at the given time, then switch back to your home time zone after it's entered. Unfortunately, that's a lot of stuff to do. (You can also do the time zone correction in your head to save those steps -- if you're good with time zones and math.)

I have suggested ways for Microsoft to fix this (allow specifying the time zone the appointment is in when creating the appointment and allow changing the calendar's view to another time zone) . Those changes would help indicate that time zones are important when entering the appointment so you'd be a lot less likely to get messed up. In fact, Pocket Informant on the Pocket PC does allow entering a time zone for an appointment (but only one -- I think both the start and end times should have one for things like flights across time zones).

Originally Posted by JeffCarlin

It would seem that lots of us would pay for a small app that would interrupt Outlook changing appt times, but still allow us to change Time Zones on our Q's as we travel. That way, of course, the clock on the Q (and our wake up alarm) would be correct without calculations.

There are applications like that out there, at least for the Pocket PC. For example, check out WebIS Toolbox.

The problem with that is that you have to run it after you change your time zone on your device. Because Outlook doesn't "change" the appointments as you said, this tool goes in and does change them all (well, except for recurring appointments).

So you still have to remember to do something. Either you remember to enter appointments in the correct time zone when creating them or you remember to run some tool after you change time zones. I think the best way is to get used to how Outlook does it. People have complained about this to Microsoft for years and they haven't changed how it works, so you had better get used to it, I think.

And, yes, even though I know how it works, I've messed it up in the past. I scheduled a Thanksgiving dinner with my parents in Arizona but forgot about the time zone difference. Had the Calendar supported time zone entry, though, I probably wouldn't have made that mistake.

If you're really interested, here's the same discussion from 4 years ago. Please read that before arguing either side here. (Of course, Microsoft's system isn't perfect. It can arguably mess up all-day events.)

Steve

[JeffCarlin]

I appreciate your comments, Pony, however, you've pretty much over-analyzed my thoughts.

Originally Posted by Pony99CA

First, Outlook does not "change" your appointment at all. The appointment is stored relative to GMT as far as I know. Outlook simply displays the appointment relative to the time zone you're in based on the offset from GMT.

Absolutely right. Sorry I wasn't more specific in my choice of words, but I thought it was understood that my needs are in the displaying of the information. Frankly, I could care less what the db does with the data as long as it's shown to me in the manner I need.

Originally Posted by Pony99CA

The correct way to use Outlook when scheduling an appointment in another time zone is to switch to that time zone first, then enter the appointment at the given time, then switch back to your home time zone after it's entered. Unfortunately, that's a lot of stuff to do.

Amen...and probably a cutting edge programming function in 1974.

Originally Posted by Pony99CA

I have suggested ways for Microsoft to fix this (allow specifying the time zone the appointment is in when creating the appointment and allow changing the calendar's view to another time zone) . Those changes would help indicate that time zones are important when entering the appointment so you'd be a lot less likely to get messed up. In fact, Pocket Informant on the Pocket PC does allow entering a time zone for an appointment (but only one -- I think both the start and end times should have one for things like flights across time zones).

How about this for a novel idea? Let me decide how to present my data. If I choose not to be TimeZone cognisant, so be it.

Originally Posted by Pony99CA

There are applications like that out there, at least for the Pocket PC. For example, check out WebIS Toolbox.

I used WebIS Toolbox when I had my 700w; it worked about half the time. When it didn't work, all my appts were toast. Not a real good solution.

I know there are users that like the way things are now, but I also know there are plenty of users who feel as I do. All in all, the bottom line is that I'm asking for the right to display data as I choose, not as MS wants. Give me a switch to make Outlook non-cognisant of TimeZones and I'm a happy guy. Anyway, thanks again for your responses.

[Pony99CA]

Originally Posted by JeffCarlin

All in all, the bottom line is that I'm asking for the right to display data as I choose, not as MS wants. Give me a switch to make Outlook non-cognisant of TimeZones and I'm a happy guy.

I understand what you want. As somebody who has designed user interfaces for a living, one of the main tenets is to put the user in control.

However, there are both technical and pragmatic reasons why you should become time zone cognizant.

The pragmatic reason is that Microsoft isn't going to change this. I pointed you to that thread from over four years ago as proof. I hope you read it.

The technical reasons deal with conflicting items in different time zones and were discussed in that thread also and in the my post in the earlier time zone thread. As people still seem to be here, though, here's the gist of the argument.

For example, imagine that you're travelling from New York to California on business and have a meeting from 1-3 Pacific Time. Before you leave, the boss says he'll call you at 5 PM (Eastern Time) with a crucial customer update. If you just enter the meeting from 1:00-3:00 and the call from 5:00-5:15 without considering time zones, things will look great.

Of course, when you get to California, you'll be in the meeting when the boss calls, which will look very bad. If you'd entered the times relative to the correct time zones, you would have noticed the conflict and told the boss to call after 6 PM (Eastern Time).

So if you don't take time zones into account, you run the risk of conflicts.

When all you had was paper appointment books, there wasn't much else you could do. However, the computer makes proper handling of time zones possible (although Microsoft could certainly improve the ease-of-use).

The fact is that we live in a world with multiple time zones and more and more people are dealing with them now due to globalization. I understand changing habits is difficult, but sometimes it has to be done.

Steve

[JeffCarlin]

Interesting example, try mine...

I'm home in NY and book a roundtrip to LAX. The LAX-JFK flight leaves at 11am PT. What time do I put into Outlook? If I put in 11, then when in LA, it will show as 8am. If someone is to take me to the airport and I check my Q for the correct time, I guess I'll have him meet me at the hotel at 6:30! However, if I entered 11am and shut off my TZ recognition, it will show as 11 and my ride will show up at 9:30.

I guess we'll have to agree to disagree. Your remark re pragmatism is very, very true and probably the most telling argument either of us have had. BTW, my company is also in the business of designing user interfaces. This design would not put one of my designers on on the path to promotion.

[Pony99CA]

Originally Posted by JeffCarlin

Interesting example, try mine...

I'm home in NY and book a roundtrip to LAX. The LAX-JFK flight leaves at 11am PT. What time do I put into Outlook? If I put in 11, then when in LA, it will show as 8am. If someone is to take me to the airport and I check my Q for the correct time, I guess I'll have him meet me at the hotel at 6:30! However, if I entered 11am and shut off my TZ recognition, it will show as 11 and my ride will show up at 9:30.

That's pretty easy -- you put in 2 PM while you're in New York (or shift to Pacific time, enter it as 11 AM and switch back to Eastern time, where it will show up as 2 PM).

If you don't think that's useful, imagine your boss wanting to call you before your flight leaves for New York, so he asks when to call you. If you're still in New York, you just look at the calendar and say before 2 PM. If you ignored time zones, you'd have to do the math in your head (making sure you added three hours instead of subtracting them like I almost did).

For times in the U.S., the math is pretty easy. Now imagine you have a trip to India where the time is much different and you may not be as facile at the math.

Originally Posted by JeffCarlin

I guess we'll have to agree to disagree. Your remark re pragmatism is very, very true and probably the most telling argument either of us have had.

Well, I like to think my scheduling argument was convincing. Having to rely on Microsoft's refusal to see a problem isn't exactly a triumph of logic.

Steve

[shiftymagoo]

Originally Posted by Pony99CA

I understand what you want. As somebody who has designed user interfaces for a living, one of the main tenets is to put the user in control.

However, there are both technical and pragmatic reasons why you should become time zone cognizant.

The pragmatic reason is that Microsoft isn't going to change this. I pointed you to that thread from over four years ago as proof. I hope you read it.

The technical reasons deal with conflicting items in different time zones and were discussed in that thread also and in the my post in the earlier time zone thread. As people still seem to be here, though, here's the gist of the argument.

For example, imagine that you're travelling from New York to California on business and have a meeting from 1-3 Pacific Time. Before you leave, the boss says he'll call you at 5 PM (Eastern Time) with a crucial customer update. If you just enter the meeting from 1:00-3:00 and the call from 5:00-5:15 without considering time zones, things will look great.

Of course, when you get to California, you'll be in the meeting when the boss calls, which will look very bad. If you'd entered the times relative to the correct time zones, you would have noticed the conflict and told the boss to call after 6 PM (Eastern Time).

So if you don't take time zones into account, you run the risk of conflicts.

When all you had was paper appointment books, there wasn't much else you could do. However, the computer makes proper handling of time zones possible (although Microsoft could certainly improve the ease-of-use).

The fact is that we live in a world with multiple time zones and more and more people are dealing with them now due to globalization. I understand changing habits is difficult, but sometimes it has to be done.

Steve

This just show that you DONT GET IT! You clearly don't travel with the Moto Q cause if you ever did you would not be playing the Devil's Advocate.

So your "solution" is to change your time zones before entering the appointments. Instead of the phone accounting for what time zone its actually in.

I make an appointment for say 11:00am in central time. I fly in from my Pacific time zone only to find that my stupid phone hasn't updated to the now local time....so I decide that it is important to go into the settings and change it to the now local time while I am here....Now my friggin appointment is 1:00pm.

So rather than getting the time accurate it got the time differential instead. Sorry how is this a more valuable change than getting the damn time zone right in the first place.

My garmin navigation PDA makes these changes flawlessly I even have a visiting time zone option. Unfortunately its not what I carry in the airports as its been checked in my luggage.

Defend it all you want! Its grossly flawed and you are wrong!